Curse

Inde · Jun 30, 2009, 02:50 PM // 14:50

Very good post 4thvariety. Hadn't considered that reason.

MithranArkanere · Jun 30, 2009, 02:53 PM // 14:53

ANet had to remove the Taiwanese region because its government refused to let Anet ban real money trading, which is completely ILLOGICAL, since you can't sell what you don't own.

RMT should be banned worldwide.

scruffy · Jun 30, 2009, 02:54 PM // 14:54

if i was anet i would make an addition to tolkano that lets you pay real money for the items if you dont have RP's, i would also add every weapon/armor skin in the game to him

it wouldn't wreck the game's economy because everything would be customized, and it would be free money in their pocket.

Avarre · Jun 30, 2009, 02:56 PM // 14:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

which is completely ILLOGICAL, since you can't sell what you don't own.

RMT involves paying for the service of collecting the item, not the item itself.

esthetic · Jun 30, 2009, 03:01 PM // 15:01

QUOTE: CNET NEWS, David Rosenberg:

China has unveiled the first official rule on the use of virtual currency in the trade of real goods and services to limit possible impact on the real financial system. The Chinese government also spelled out the definition of "virtual currency" for the first time, which includes prepaid cards of cybergames, according to a joint announcement from the Ministry of Culture and the Ministry of Commerce Friday. It said:

The virtual currency, which is converted into real money at a certain exchange rate, will only be allowed to trade in virtual goods and services provided by its issuer, not real goods and services.

The ban is primarily aimed at "gold farming," an Internet-age phenomenon in which players in less developed countries collect and sell virtual gold (common to games like World of Warcraft) to wealthier gamers in the developed world. This enables gamers who have the means to buy virtual gold to get ahead in the games without actually having to accomplish the grunt work.

The trading of virtual currency for real cash generates between $200 million and $1 billion annually, according to a 2008 survey conducted by Richard Heeks at the University of Manchester.

The average user will only partially care about this ban. They might be disappointed that they can't buy their way to higher status, but I assume that Tencent and other popular sites will figure out a way to do in-game trades and that eventually the farmers will figure out how to bypass the restrictions.

The ban may scare off smaller shops, but the sophisticated organizations will continue on the same path. It reminds me of Japanese pachinko parlors where you can only win tokens (wink, wink) that you take next door for actual cash.

While I'm not convinced that gold farming is good or bad, there is a very persuasive argument that it's driving economic development in China, and that anything that perpetuates economic stimulus is a good thing.

MithranArkanere · Jun 30, 2009, 03:24 PM // 15:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

RMT involves paying for the service of collecting the item, not the item itself.

You don't own that, either. And the 'service of collecting the item' it's just a way around selling the item itself.

A RMT client character will not get 'getting the item', will get the item itself. 'Getting the item' will be done by the other character, and what the seller sells is the item itself.

Mordakai · Jun 30, 2009, 03:36 PM // 15:36

This has less to do with WoW gold, and more to do with "QQ coins" which was growing at a faster exchange rate than the yen. (70%!)

http://online.wsj.com/public/article..._20080329.html

Money quote:

"Then last year something happened that Tencent hadn't originally planned. Online game sites beyond Tencent started accepting QQ coins as payment. The coins appeal as a safer, more practical way to conduct small online purchases, because credit cards aren't yet commonplace in China.

At informal online currency marketplaces, thousands of users helped turn the QQ coins back into cash by selling them at a discount that varies based on the laws of supply and demand. Traders began jumping into the QQ coin market as an opportunity to make a quick yuan off of currency speculation.

State-run media reported that some online shoppers began using QQ coins to buy real-world items such as CDs and makeup. So-called QQ Girls started accepting the coins as payment for intimate private chats online. Gamblers caught wind, too, and started using the currency to get around China's anti-gambling laws, converting wins in online mahjong and card games back into cash. Dozens of third-party trading posts sprouted up to ease transactions, turning the QQ coin into a kind of parallel currency."

Brawn Over Brains · Jun 30, 2009, 04:12 PM // 16:12

*Checks Atlas*
Meh.
I'm fine.

distilledwill · Jun 30, 2009, 04:22 PM // 16:22

What about the guys who draw fanart for ingame money? Thats sort of trading ingame money for real-world services.

Ghost Omel · Jun 30, 2009, 04:27 PM // 16:27

No real MONEY involved though... and you can alwasy say......
1 Hey dude nice art you have there..

2 yeah i know you want it?

1 Sure

2 Oh can i borrow measly 30k?

1 Sure

And the problem is Real money for in gam eitems correct?

Not imaginary moneys for some onse art -_-

But yeah i see where the confusion comes form

Mordakai · Jun 30, 2009, 04:39 PM // 16:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ghost Omel

No real MONEY involved though... and you can alwasy say......
1 Hey dude nice art you have there..

2 yeah i know you want it?

1 Sure

2 Oh can i borrow measly 30k?

1 Sure

And the problem is Real money for in gam eitems correct?

Not imaginary moneys for some onse art -_-

But yeah i see where the confusion comes form

I have some "artwork" you may like...

it has a picture of Andrew Jackson on it.

Seriously, though, I really don't see China cracking down on goldsellers.

This law was in direct response to a threat to the Chinese yen. (QQ coins)

Until people start paying prostitutes with WoW gold, I think Chinese gold farmers will be fine.

Bob Slydell · Jun 30, 2009, 04:40 PM // 16:40

Thank god... Will all the annoying gold selling start finally dying off? All the hacking too? You know this business doesn't only sell gold and make money but they steal accounts in the process to to gain even more money by riggin that to farm gold as well too...

AKB48 · Jun 30, 2009, 04:50 PM // 16:50

It wont matter, China = simply too big to be controlled. If there is a way to make money, there will be people taking the risk. Sure, the chinese gov. can shut what? 50-60% of the gold farming off, but in the poorer, outer areas where the government isnt as efficient, they can't really do that much. Also, you can ban gold farming via large trading forums etc. but can you really ban gold selling and buying with much, much smaller groups selling gold in their city?

Good thing though, I hope rest of the world can follow the lead.

Grj · Jun 30, 2009, 04:51 PM // 16:51

Isn't this site owned or funded by gold sellers anyway? Anytime its brought up the post/thread gets wiped

i remember reading somewhere online, if this is wrong then im sorry

BoondockSaint · Jun 30, 2009, 04:55 PM // 16:55

Very interesting. To comment on how it will effect gold farmers in real life.

whether Inde's point is true or not is up for speculation, will the gold farmers be able to adapt, or will China successfully kill off a large portion of the industry.

If we are to assume that China is successful and does wipe out gold traders then there is a possibility that thousands of people will lose their jobs as gold traders.

Yet we have all heard the negative aspects of gold farmers. You rule out the purely economic benefit an individual or a country can gain from gold farmers and you encounter many negative ones, mostly that revolve around the individual themselves.

I do not have a link to the documentary but it demonstrated how kids in china were being enticed to be gold farmers because they were getting paid to play video games. These kids often times dropped out of school and worked in sweetshop like conditions making very little money for themselves. And while they DID have employment, these kids were stuck at what we would call a dead end job. The government in China also felt that despite providing jobs and some income for the state, (though taxes like in Australia) it was creating more harm then good.
Some of these kids could and should have gone on to more successful professions, allowing them to make more money and thus have a higher taxable income.

While I am sure if the gold farming industry is wiped out not all the people who gold farm will move on to better things. But if only a few don't get stuck in that industry and go on to make something of themselves I would consider that a victory.

So I guess what I am trying to say is yes Inde is right in that people may lose there jobs but I would add to that it may not be a bad thing even in this economy.

s t e e · Jun 30, 2009, 05:18 PM // 17:18

Hooray less gold seller spammers.

HuntMaster Avatar · Jun 30, 2009, 05:19 PM // 17:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

RMT involves paying for the service of collecting the item, not the item itself.

Thats sort of like selling a writing pen for 2,000 dollars and giving away a free guildwars account with 1,000 ecto's in it. My cousin used to sell EQ accounts like that.

I for one hope this filters out the spam and unfair advantages of cash shop games (money>skill) although it probably won't.

Fril Estelin · Jun 30, 2009, 05:21 PM // 17:21

Interesting comments from the playnoevil post, highlighting a different target (gambling):

http://playnoevil.com/serendipity/in...y-Instead.html

Quote:

The regulations also solidify some issue that are of concern to US customers of online games as well:

- If the service is shut off, customers are entitled to a refund of unused currency.
- "virtual currency should be exchanged only for virtual goods and services provided by the issuer of the currency" (this would cause problems for a lot of the third party currency folks here in the US and elsewhere)
- Companies already involved in virtual currency trading are required to register with the local cultural affairs bureau within three months.
- Minors may not buy virtual money. THIS IS POTENTIALLY HUGE. If enforced, this would essentially shut down most MMOs that use the Free-to-Play business model.

The gambling issue is very important. Even "virtual lotteries" are being affected. Giant Interactive, operator of ZT Online, is shutting down its "box opening" game (where players buy treasure boxes that yield random virtual prizes). Interestingly, this would not be considered gambling in the US (and elsewhere) since there is no "real" prize (I don't think - Lawyers?).

Quote:

Locking out minors from buying virtual currency could be devastating (and was mentioned only in one line of the statement from the Ministry of Commerce). If it is enforced as "effectively" as the age restrictions for games, I don't think it will be problem, but if enforced vigorously, it would all but eliminate the "free-to-play" business model in what is probably the world's largest online gaming market.

As someone already said, "enforcement" in China is a very different beast from how it's done in Western countries, when it's done ofc.

I wonder whether this move, if generalised over the planet, could mean MMOs getting closer to Second Life's business model. But I doubt many MMOs could survive the move financially and F2P could die too.

esthetic · Jun 30, 2009, 05:22 PM // 17:22

Personally, I don't think the Chinese government gives a shat about protecting kids in front of computers not getting an education, or Gaming companies losing revenue to gold farmers, or the fairness of buying ingame stuff with real world money. The real issue to them is the proliferation of a virtual currency and its growing real world impact on the economy. Its all about control and regulation and by outlawing the conversion of virtual currency with real world currency they hope to stem the impact.

This being my point of view, I do not think the Chinese will be craking down on gold farmers that sell to gamers in the US, but rather the virtual currency in China used in gambling and other social sites.

Antares Ascending · Jun 30, 2009, 05:33 PM // 17:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inde

I'm going to post it, and it will be controversial but such is life.

All they did was make it so thousands lost their jobs for no reason at all. It won't affect the gold farming industry as they are very well able to adapt, shift gears and more. They have to with all the efforts that are made by game publishers to stop them.

EQ2/Sony decided instead of fighting them to take their own cut and came up with their own gold currency exchange. It was smart/controversial but it worked. If people want it and are willing to pay for it any business is eventually going to want their share of it.

I also, nowadays, fail to see how buying Gold to get ahead of your fellow player is any different then these new micro-transactions that have been introduced in so many MMO's, including Guild Wars. How is paying to unlock your skills any different then paying to get some gold? You didn't work for it or earn it. They both serve the purpose of getting ahead of your fellow player faster and easier.

The gaming industry has just done a better job at masking what they are doing by putting a face on it as "legit" since the micro-transactions are coming from the gaming developers themselves.

Have to agree with this. For what its worth, I doubt the farmers are all going to just say GOLLY! I guess I can't do that any more.

I smell a strong lobby at work here. Why, on earth, would the Chinese government care about game farming that puts dollars into thier economy?

Personaly, I could care less about the gold farmers.